Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 1550 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 5:14 am Post subject: Looking beyond the hype - Bilderberg docs on Wikileaks
Wikileaks is really important and totally fascinating. I was on today and found a bunch of docs about the Bilderberg meetings. I skimmed through a couple and found them to be fairly predictable for being a bunch of powerful people hoping to shape the future in some way.
The following link is a short history of how the meeting started and what they hoped to accomplish written by one of those responsible in 1956, two years after the meetings started. In the quotes below he explains the motivation for the meetings, why they are private, and concerns about not appearing to be a "political mafia." Keep in mind that these documents have been secret until very recently.
A few years ago a large number of people began to feel anxious about a growing distrust of America
which was making itself manifest in Western Europe and which was paralleled by a similar distrust of
Western Europe in America. This feeling caused considerable apprehension on both sides of the Atlantic
and in 1952 I felt that it was of the first importance to try to remove this suspicion, distrust, and lack of
confidence which threatened to jeopardize the post-war work of the Western Allies.
I therefore approached H.R.H. Prince Bernhard, Dr Paul Rykens, and M. Paul van Zeeland with the
suggestion that we should organize some unofficial and private meetings to discuss the difficulties and
dangers which were causing us so much anxiety.
Quote:
The second point we had to consider consisted in ensuring that frank conversations could take place without
running the risk of being misinterpreted by the press and that there should be no interminable speeches
for the sake of publicity. It was clear, therefore, that such conversations had to be conducted privately,
unofficially, and confidentially, and for this reason we decided not to admit the press to our meetings,
restricting publicity in general to one or two very short communiques which do not go into any details,
nor mention any individual speakers, in order to ensure that neither the subject of our discussions nor the
names of the participants should be given any publicity. Experience has proved this course to be the right
one, since our debates take place in a spirit of complete frankness and discretion, and participants are
never afraid that anything they say will be used against them.
Quote:
In order not to be accused of starting an unofficial political "mafia", we decided from the outset not to
consider ourselves a policy-making body but to have as our principal aim the smoothing over of
difficulties and tendencies among countries and the finding of a common approach in the various
fields—political, cultural, economic, and social. Moreover, we do not contemplate taking any direct
action. We draw the attention of existing organizations to the points in question; what those organizations
do remains their own responsibility. For this side of our work, however, we have always had the tacit
approval of the Governments of the countries to which the participants belong.
And here's a link to the most recent meeting notes available from 1980.
There was a need to organize some unofficial and private meetings to discuss the difficulties and dangers which were causing them so much anxiety.
They had to ensure that frank conversations could take place without running the risk of being misinterpreted by the press which they own and control?
They draw the attention of existing organizations, populated by people they own and control, to the points in question.
They have always had the tacit approval of the Governments of the countries to which the participants belong because they own all of the major the powerbrokers in government.
David Icke, Freedom Road, Part 2 of 3
I had just watched this two nights ago. In Part 2, Icke shows how the composition of the Reagan, Bush, and Clinton administrations changed only in the names of the individuals. But, not in the organizations of which they were members: CFR, Trilateral Commission, Bilderberg.
One of the first parts of the Illuminati network that new researchers discover is the group of organisations which connect into the British-based secret society called The Round Table. These include the Bilderberg Group, the Royal Institute of International Affairs, the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, and the Club of Rome.
This network is not the most powerful expression of the Illuminati. There are many more elite groups within it's web, but these "Round Table" organisations are a key part of its day to day manipulation of politics, banking, business, the military (especially NATO), "education", and so on.
You can read about all this in great detail in my books, And The Truth Shall Set You Free and The Biggest Secret. But briefly, the network was created to advance through the 20th century and beyond the Illuminati agenda for the centralised control of Planet Earth.
The Round Table was created in London (the Illuminati's operational centre) in the latter years of the 19th century. Its first official "leader" was Cecil Rhodes, the man who mercilessly manipulated Southern Africa and took those lands from the black peoples. Although, in theory, black people are back in political control of Africa, the real decisions are still made by the European and American elites via their black puppet presidents and leaders. "Independence" is an illusion.
Rhodes played tribe against tribe until they destroyed each other in war, so allowing Rhodes and the British to take over. The same is happening today in the continuing wars in Africa, details of which you will find on this site. Rhodes said the goal of the Round Table was to create World Government controlled by Britain (the Illuminati based in Britain).
When he died in 1902, he left money in his will to fund "Rhodes Scholarships" in which overseas students had their expenses paid to study at Oxford University - the centre of the Illuminati's manipulation of "education". The ratio of these "Rhodes Scholars" who go back to their countries to enter positions of political, economic, and media power is enormous compared with the general student population. They act as Illuminati agents. The most famous Rhodes Scholar in the world today is Bill Clinton, the two-times President of the United States. But while Rhodes was the official front man for the Round Table, the real controllers and funders were, and are, the House of Rothschild, the banking dynasty which is at the heart of so much of the global conspiracy. This is not an anti-Jewish remark because the Rothschilds claim to be Jewish. The Rothschilds have manipulated Jewish people more than any other!! See Was a Hitler a Rothschild on this site.
The inner elite of this Round Table in the US and UK were the key members of their government's war administrations before and during the First World War.. As is provable with documentation, they worked together to engineer the circumstances that led to that global conflict. Through their technique of create-the-problem-then-offer-the-solution, they wanted to destroy the global status quo with that war and therefore have the opportunity to re-draw the world in their agenda's image when the conflict was over. This is precisely what they did.
Power in the world was in far fewer hands after the war than before, and this was advanced even further when they engineered the Second World War also. This has continued to this day and, indeed, is getting quicker all the time.
In 1919, came the Versailles Peace Conference near Paris when the elite of the Round Table from Britain and the United States, people like Alfred Milner, Edward Mandel House, and Bernard Baruch, were appointed to represent their countries at the meetings which decided how the world would be changed as a result of the war these same people had created. They decided to impose impossible reparations payments on Germany, so ensuring the collapse of the post-war Weimar Republic amid unbelievable ecomonic collapse and thus create the very circumstances that brought Hitler (a Rothschild, see related article) to power. It was while in Paris that these Illuminati, Round Table, members met at the Hotel Majestic to begin the process of creating the Bilderberg-CFR-RIIA-Trilateral Commission network. They also decided at Versailles that they now all supported the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. As I show in my books, EVERY ONE of them was either a Rothschild bloodline or was controlled by them.
The American President, Woodrow Wilson, was "advised" at Versailles by Colonel House and Bernard Baruch, both Rothschild clones and leaders of the Round Table in the United States; The British Prime Minister, Lloyd George, was "advised" by Alfred Milner, Rothschild employee and Round Table leader, and Sir Phillip Sassoon, a direct decendent of Mayer Amschel Rothschild, the founder of the dynasty; The French leader, Georges Clemenceau, was "advised" by his Minister for the Interior, Georges Mandel, whose real name was Jeroboam Rothschild.
Who do you think was making the decisions here??
As a result of their secret meetings at the Hotel Majestic, The Royal Institute of International Affairs was founded in London in 1920, the Council on Foreign Relations followed in 1921, and then came the Bilderberg Group (1954), the Club of Rome (1968) and the Trilateral Commission (1973). These are dominated by the Rothschilds and Rockefellers, and major manipulators like Henry Kissinger, who, in turn, answer to higher powers in the Illuminati.
These organisations have among their number the top people in global politics, business, banking, military, media, "education" and so forth. These are the channels through which the same global policies are co-ordinated outside of public knowledge through apparently unconnected countries, political parties, and institutions. The upper levels of secret societies like the Freemasons, Knights of Malta, etc., connect into this Round Table web also.
The Trilateral Commission:
"...a vehicle for multinational consolidation of commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States."
Barry Goldwater
>From Compton's OnLine Encyclopedia
House, Edward Mandell (1858-1938),
U.S. political leader, born in Houston, Tex.; confidential foreign agent of President Wilson; member American Peace Commission 1919.
Milner, Alfred, Viscount (1854-1925),
British statesman and colonial administrator; won international fame as high commissioner for South Africa 1897-1905, period that laid foundations of British rule there; an Imperialist and Conservative, he opposed famous Lloyd George budget of 1909, but joined coalition cabinet 1916 and except for Lloyd George took largest share in civilian war activities; secretary of state for colonies 1919.
BARUCH, Bernard (1870-1965). Although he never ran for public office, Bernard Baruch was an adviser to American presidents on economic matters for more than 40 years. As a young man he had shown a remarkable ability to make money by investment.
Bernard Mannes Baruch was born on Aug. 19, 1870, at Camden, S.C. His family moved to New York City in 1881, and he attended City College there, graduating at the age of 19. In 1890 Baruch took a job as an office boy in a small New York City brokerage house. By 1897 he owned a one-eighth interest in the firm. He married Annie Griffin; they had three children.
Baruch bought a seat on the New York Stock Exchange and within a few years became a millionaire. By 1903 he had his own firm. His refusal to join any other financial house gave him the reputation as the "lone wolf of Wall Street."
Baruch supported Woodrow Wilson in the presidential campaign of 1912. In 1916 Wilson appointed him to the advisory commission of the Council of National Defense. In 1918 he became chairman of the War Industries Board.
Cecil Rhodes (1853-1902). South Africa has long attracted men seeking wealth and power. In the 1880s and 1890s Cecil Rhodes found both. He made a fortune in diamonds and gold. As prime minister of Britain's colony at the Cape of Good Hope he was virtual dictator of all South Africa. Rhodes's ambition was not for himself but for his native Britain. He brought Northern and Southern Rhodesia (now Zambia and Zimbabwe) into the British Empire (see Zambia ; Zimbabwe ).
Cecil John Rhodes was born on July 5, 1853, in Bishop's Stortford, England. When he was 17, tuberculosis kept him from entering Oxford University. He went to South Africa and took part in the rush to the newly discovered Kimberley diamond fields. Within a few months he had made a fortune. The active life restored his health, and he continued his education. For eight years he alternated between study at Oxford and work in South Africa. In 1881, just before taking his degree, he was elected to the parliament of Cape Colony. In 1890 he became its prime minister.
Rhodes also controlled the huge companies that owned most of the gold and diamond fields. In 1893 he defeated the Matabele tribe and their king, Lobengula. Meanwhile he schemed against his political opponent Paul Kruger, leader of the Dutch settlers--the Boers--and president of the Transvaal Republic. In 1895 Leander Jameson, Rhodes's friend, raided the Transvaal, hoping to overthrow the Boer government. The raid failed. Rhodes was implicated and forced to resign as prime minister and as director of the British South Africa Company.
Rhodes moved to Matabeleland, planning to develop its natural resources. Soon he had the chance to show his statesmanship. The tribal people who lived in the area had revolted and could not be suppressed. Rhodes talked with the chiefs, heard their grievances, and promised relief. The rebellion ended. In 1898 Rhodes was again elected to the Cape Colony parliament. He had begun to regain his old power when the Boer War (1899-1902) began. He took part in the defense of Kimberley, but his health broke and he died on March 26, 1902, in Muizenberg.
Rhodes's dream of a South African Union came true in 1910. He left his Cape Town residence, Groote Schuur, to be the home of future prime ministers of the Union, now a republic. The University of Cape Town is also situated on his Groote Schuur estate.
The Rhodes Scholarships
Rhodes left most of his fortune to establish scholarships to Oxford University. Approximately 70 scholarships are awarded each year. They last for two years. The original grant for a scholarship-- 300 pounds--has been raised to more than 2,600 pounds a year.
Rhodes scholars are selected from the Commonwealth, Germany, and the United States. Until 1976 only men were eligible. In the United States 32 scholarships are offered each year. Four go to each of eight districts. Candidates must be 18 to 24 years old and must have a degree from a recognized college or university. Each school appoints up to five candidates. From these the state committees of selection nominate two candidates each. Awards are based on leadership, scholastic attainment, success in outdoor sports, and interviews. Scholarship winners may select any course of study at Oxford that they are qualified to pursue. In some cases the scholarship may be extended to cover a third year in postgraduate study.
Rothschild Family
For most of the 19th century, the House of Rothschild, a Jewish family of bankers, ruled the money markets of Europe. Many European nations borrowed money from them to pay debts, to wage wars, or to finance peacetime projects. The family name was derived from the red shield (rothen Schilde in German) used by an ancestor as a sign for his shop.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812) laid the foundation of the family fortune. He was born in the Jewish quarter of Frankfurt-am-Main, Germany. He became a tradesman and provided some banking services, such as exchanging currencies. An expert in rare coins, Mayer Amschel gained admittance to many wealthy homes, notably that of the elector William of Hesse-Kassel. Soon he was entrusted with some of the elector's major financial affairs. Mayer Amschel raised his five sons to work in the family business.
The Rothschilds owed their rise as international bankers largely to the Napoleonic Wars. Mayer Amschel's third son, Nathan Mayer (1777-1836), went to England in about 1800 and ran goods for the British through Napoleon's blockade. With his brothers' help, Nathan Mayer also transported gold through France to finance the British army in Spain. This action earned Nathan a post as agent of the British treasury. At the war's end the House of Rothschild was commissioned to handle loans to France and Austria.
Nathan' s brother Jacob, or James (1792-1868), established a bank in Paris, France, and his brother Salomon Mayer (1774-1855) set up a bank in Vienna, Austria. A bank in Naples, Italy, founded later by another brother, Karl Mayer (1788-1855), failed to thrive and was closed in about 1861. The oldest brother, Amschel Mayer (1773-1855), remained in charge of the financial business in Frankfurt.
The House of Rothschild financed railroads in Europe and America and provided loans to the United States. Nathan Mayer' s son Lionel Nathan (1808-79) in 1875 loaned Britain the money used by Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli to buy control of the Suez Canal. Lionel Nathan was the first Jew to be elected to the British Parliament, and his son Nathan Mayer (1840-1915) became the first Baron Rothschild.
The Rothschilds have received many honors. Members of the British and French families--the only ones still engaged in banking after the Nazis seized the Austrian house--have distinguished themselves as scientists and philanthropists.
LLOYD GEORGE, David (1863 -1945). At the age of 17, a small slender Welshman visited the British House of Commons. Afterward he recorded in his diary his hope for a political career. The Welshman, David Lloyd George, in time became the prime minister who guided Great Britain to victory over Germany in World War I.
David George was born on Jan. 17, 1863, in Manchester, England, where his Welsh father, William George, had gone to teach school. His father died in June 1864. Soon after, the family returned to Wales. David was educated by his uncle, Richard Lloyd, the village cobbler. In his honor the boy took the name Lloyd. At the age of 14 he began to study law and at 21 was admitted to practice as a solicitor. In 1890 he was elected to Parliament as a Liberal from the Welsh borough of Caernarvon. "The great little Welshman" held his seat in the Commons for 55 years.
CLEMENCEAU, Georges (1841-1929). In 1917, near the end of World War I, Georges Clemenceau accepted the post of premier of France. His country seemed on the verge of losing the war; but the premier, a man of 77, guided his people to victory. After the war he presided at the peace conference.
Clemenceau founded a daily paper, L'Aurore, to aid the cause of Captain Alfred Dreyfus, convicted of selling French military secrets to Germany. Émile Zola's famous article in defense of Dreyfus, `J'Accuse' (I Accuse), was published in this paper in 1898. In 1913 Clemenceau founded L'Homme libre, meaning The Free Man, in which he warned of the danger of war with Germany. The paper was briefly suppressed in 1914 but reappeared as L'Homme enchaîné, (The Man in Chains).
In 1919, while presiding at the peace conference, Clemenceau was wounded by an anarchist. In 1922 he toured the United States to urge cooperation with Europe. He continued to write until his death in Paris on Nov. 24, 1929. _________________ In a dictatorship, no one can hear you scream.
Description:
1955 - Report
1956 - History
1957 - Report
1958 - Report
1960 - Report
1962 - Report and List of Participants
1963 - Report
1973 - Report (not all) and List of Participants
1980 - Report and List of Participants
1996 - Report and List of Participants
2006 - Press Release and List of Participants
Category: Document > PDF
Language: English
Total Size: 20.07 MB
Joined: 20 Oct 2007 Posts: 592 Location: New York City
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:12 am Post subject:
And please don't quote David Icke as an authority. The 9/11 Truth Movement does not need to be associated with grand conspiracy ideologies about alien lizards. _________________ Diane
Thanks Diane for that moment of sanity. Of the many resources available to 911truth Icke is one we can do without.
Anything good he's got to say some else said better. FFS, his "theories" are a not so veiled rip off of the Warshawski brothers ideas mixed with OMG NWO rubbish---
And please don't quote David Icke as an authority. The 9/11 Truth Movement does not need to be associated with grand conspiracy ideologies about alien lizards.
Look at the title of this thread:
Bilderberg docs on Wikileaks
The thread is about burrowing into the councils of power. There was nothing said about lizards until you brought it up. And who here said that Icke was an authority anyway? I consider him to be a source of information that is more often interesting than not. Individuals can make their own decision whether to accept what Icke presents (or anyone else for that matter, including NannYC Activists) on its face, or subject it to further scrutiny and verification, or discount it entirely.
For those who are interested in identifying these creachsters that walk the halls in the councils of power, here is interesting collection of info for your library:
This chart illustrates the dominance by –
The Council on Foreign Relations,
The Trilateral Commission
and The Bilderberg
- in the major decision making processes and institutions
United States of America over the last seventy years.
This document contains a huge list of public serpents, past and present, and their memberships in CFR, Trilateral Commission, Bilderberger, as well as numerous articles.
Also includes CFR, Trilateral Commission, Bilderberger list of members by their affiliation with:
FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS
FEDERAL JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES CONGRESS
NEWSPAPER PUBLISHERS
ELECTRONIC MEDIA
TELEVISION
MAGAZINES
NEWSPAPERS
PRINT MEDIA
COLLEGE & UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS
UNIVERSITY PROFESSORS
CLINTON ADMINISTRATION
FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM
EXPORT-IMPORT BANK OF US
AMBASSADORS
OTHER
STATE GOVERNORS
FORMER GOVERNORS
LABOR UNION LEADERS
FOUNDATIONS
Joined: 20 Oct 2007 Posts: 592 Location: New York City
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:36 am Post subject:
dicktater wrote:
And who here said that Icke was an authority anyway? I consider him to be a source of information that is more often interesting than not.
Aren't there any better sources of the same info? See Col. Jenny Sparks's post above. Quoting Icke is a good way to make oneself look like a complete kook. Why shoot ourselves in the foot that way, when we have so many other, better sources of info? _________________ Diane
And who here said that Icke was an authority anyway? I consider him to be a source of information that is more often interesting than not.
Aren't there any better sources of the same info? See Col. Jenny Sparks's post above. Quoting Icke is a good way to make oneself look like a complete kook. Why shoot ourselves in the foot that way, when we have so many other, better sources of info?
Diane wrote:
Successful movements do not succeed by silencing public discussion about political differences within the movement.
Quote:
I’m no longer inclined to believe in WTC demolition theories, for reasons I’ll explain in another future post.
More recently, Dr. Steven Jones has come out with papers about the red and grey chips. Right now I’m taking a wait-and-see attitude on those. I don’t feel qualified to evaluate his evidence myself. (I took only one semester of chemistry in college, whereas I had two years of physics and subsequently tutored students in basic physics.)
Oh really? Still unable to watch video online? Too bad.
A Short Physics Lesson Perhaps - This Is WTC-7
Downward Acceleration of the North Tower
The roofline of WTC1 (The North Tower of the World Trade Center) begins dropping with sudden onset and accelerates uniformly downward at about 64% of the acceleration of gravity (g) until it disappears into the dust. This means it is meeting resistance equal to about 36% of its weight. The implication of this, however, is that the force it is exerting on the lower section of the building is also only 36% of the weight of the falling section. This is much less than the force it would exert if it were at rest. The acceleration data thus prove that the falling top section of the building cannot be responsible for the destruction of the lower section of the building. [I want to acknowledge the work of Graeme MacQueen and Tony Szamboti who have been engaged in similar measurements by other means and have reached similar conclusions.]
4-Ton Girders: Blowing in the Wind?
Quote:
The towers were designed to withstand hurricane winds. They weren’t designed to withstand an avalanche being dropped on them from above.
More recently, Dr. Steven Jones has come out with papers about the red and grey chips. Right now I’m taking a wait-and-see attitude on those. I don’t feel qualified to evaluate his evidence myself. (I took only one semester of chemistry in college, whereas I had two years of physics and subsequently tutored students in basic physics.)
Oh really? Still unable to watch video online? Too bad.
A Short Physics Lesson Perhaps - This Is WTC-7
Downward Acceleration of the North Tower
The roofline of WTC1 (The North Tower of the World Trade Center) begins dropping with sudden onset and accelerates uniformly downward at about 64% of the acceleration of gravity (g) until it disappears into the dust. This means it is meeting resistance equal to about 36% of its weight. The implication of this, however, is that the force it is exerting on the lower section of the building is also only 36% of the weight of the falling section. This is much less than the force it would exert if it were at rest. The acceleration data thus prove that the falling top section of the building cannot be responsible for the destruction of the lower section of the building. [I want to acknowledge the work of Graeme MacQueen and Tony Szamboti who have been engaged in similar measurements by other means and have reached similar conclusions.]
4-Ton Girders: Blowing in the Wind?
Quote:
The towers were designed to withstand hurricane winds. They weren’t designed to withstand an avalanche being dropped on them from above.
And please don't quote David Icke as an authority. The 9/11 Truth Movement does not need to be associated with grand conspiracy ideologies about alien lizards.
Look at the title of this thread:
Bilderberg docs on Wikileaks
The thread is about burrowing into the councils of power. There was nothing said about lizards until you brought it up. And who here said that Icke was an authority anyway? I consider him to be a source of information that is more often interesting than not.
Sorry, if he's the ONLY source of whatever information you have, that info is not to be trusted.
If you have another source, use it instead of Big Lizard Boy. At this point Icke is pure PR poison--the only thing people will think about--left to their own devices when you post Icke references-- is crazy conspiracy wacko jackos, then ignore anything else you have to say. That's how real people, in the real over worked underpaid world behave.
You know, the people we're trying to help. _________________ ___________________________________________________
http://coljennysparks.blogspot.com/
Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 1550 Location: Los Angeles
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:16 am Post subject:
Could anyone point out something that Icke has to offer that you can't find elsewhere?
And is anyone here unfamiliar with the basic idea that if something can be used against us and isn't essential to our progress that we are better to not include it?
Sorry, if he's the ONLY source of whatever information you have, that info is not to be trusted.
If you have another source, use it instead of Big Lizard Boy. At this point Icke is pure PR poison--the only thing people will think about--left to their own devices when you post Icke references-- is crazy conspiracy wacko jackos, then ignore anything else you have to say. That's how real people, in the real over worked underpaid world behave.
You know, the people we're trying to help.
Not to mention that every disinfo agent, and simple braindead "debunker" will jump on the icke lizard thing and throw this at the entire truth movement in an attempt to discredit us.
Heck they already do that to some extent but no need to give them ammo. We don't need icke in the truth movement, anything of value that he talks about can be found from another unblemished source.
Joined: 20 Oct 2007 Posts: 592 Location: New York City
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject:
dicktater wrote:
Kook? Now who's the kook?
The 9/11 Truth movement will not be discredited, in the eyes of the general public, by the existence of people like myself who call for an independent investigation of 9/11 without advocating the WTC demolition hypothesis.
Such a view is not even remotely as "kooky" in the eyes of the general public as David Icke is.
I've replied to another part of your post here on by blog, since I'm not sure whether YT welcomes debate about WTC demolition theories here in this forum. _________________ Diane
Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 411 Location: West Virginia
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject:
Diane wrote:
dicktater wrote:
Kook? Now who's the kook?
The 9/11 Truth movement will not be discredited, in the eyes of the general public, by the existence of people like myself who call for an independent investigation of 9/11 without advocating the WTC demolition hypothesis.
Such a view is not even remotely as "kooky" in the eyes of the general public as David Icke is.
I've replied to another part of your post here on by blog, since I'm not sure whether YT welcomes debate about WTC demolition theories here in this forum.
Really? You think fires and asymmetrical debris damage from the north tower caused WTC 7 to fail symmetrically in free fall?
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
