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reprehensor
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 28
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 Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: Dr. William F. Pepper: The New York City Ballot Initiative |
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http://911blogger.com/node/13476
In my opinion, William Pepper alone is sufficient reason to get behind this initiative. I have communicated my concerns to Pepper regarding the 2007 9/11 "Ready for Mainstream" publicity event in NYC, regarding the unwarranted attacks on members of this site (and 911blogger) and the inclusion of speakers like Alfred Webre; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Webre - who seem more interested in promoting theories like "exopolitics", HAARP mind-control, chemtrails, the "Black Nobility", etc., etc., etc., than offering a serious examination of 9/11. |
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victronix01
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 1704
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
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The first "commissioner" on the list . . .
"Yes, there have been ET visitations. "
Apollo 14 Astronaut, Edgar Mitchell, Ph.D. (Sixth Man to Walk on Moon)
From Disclosure, pp. 61-64.
See also The Way of the Explorer, Edgar Mitchell and Dwight Williams, p. 212.
http://www.wanttoknow.info/050324ufotestimony
reading on . .
"There have been crashed craft. There have been material and bodies recovered . . . "
That's all folks! Show's over for any "investigation" done by this commission. Mixing UFO and 9/11 is only to tank 9/11, even if UFOs are 100% real and visiting every hour of the day. The fact is, it's a hotbutton switch to turn off Americans.
Of course, nothing about his UFO beliefs is mentioned on his description.
Shall anyone else move on to examine the other commissioners? My work is done here.
http://www.nyc911initiative.org/commissioners.htm
I too communicated to Pepper. The fact that he never responded directly, although did to others, and went ahead and participated alongside Webre was a concern to me. He seems very eloquent and dedicated and most people like and respect him. But if we don't examine this commission, we can't depend on anyone else to before the media exposes and tanks it. |
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Col. Jenny Sparks
Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 2329
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The website of the 9/11 Ballot Initiative is www.nyc911initiative.org The NYC coordinator of volunteers is Les Jamieson. You are needed. We are in this disaster together and together our movement must prevail. |
I want to be supportive, but why am I even reading the name "Les Jamieson"? You've communicated your concerns--maybe some more communication is needed... 
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http://coljennysparks.blogspot.com/ |
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funhouse1970
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| victronix01 wrote: | | The first "commissioner" on the list . . . |
Do you think this is an attempt to subvert the ballot initiative? I've thought that this approach is correct so I wouldn't be surprised to see it "go through" with moles at the helm. |
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Arabesque
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1437
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victronix01
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 1704
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: |
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To me one of the real questions is why "leaders" often don't get it about disinfo and discrediting associations. Everyone will support the ballot initiative because of William Pepper, and he seems to know about disinfo, but then people like him will often describe it as "division" and "infighting" . . . I don't know what his own position is on the whole thing, or if he even knows. But I've tried to reach him before and couldn't tell if he understood really. Obviously others have also tried to reach him.
But the more this goes public, the more people will complain. |
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Diane
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 592
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| victronix01 wrote: | To me one of the real questions is why "leaders" often don't get it about disinfo and discrediting associations. Everyone will support the ballot initiative because of William Pepper, and he seems to know about disinfo, but then people like him will often describe it as "division" and "infighting" . . . I don't know what his own position is on the whole thing, or if he even knows. But I've tried to reach him before and couldn't tell if he understood really. Obviously others have also tried to reach him.
But the more this goes public, the more people will complain. |
NOW is the time to voice your concerns about the commissioners, everyone. The ballot initiative is now in process of being re-written and will be re-launched soon.
It would be nice if there were another organization in NYC that both (1) was capable of launching something like the ballot initiative and (2) also had higher standards. But there isn't. The only other group in New York whose leaders have decent organizing skills is We Are Change, an organization which not only has but is far more outright committed to its own set of "discrediting associations," given its commitment to the ideology of Alex Jones - whose ideology includes endorsement of pretty much the entire religious right wing agenda including anti-feminism, homophobia, and slams against various minority religions, plus some highly questionable economic beliefs originated by Jew-hating authors. (Keep in mind that NYC has a very high concentration of Jews, so Alex Jones's endorsement of highly inflammatory and historically questionable allegations about "the Rothschilds" is utter poison here. NYC also has a very powerful gay rights movement, so Prison Planet's anti-gay bigotry is utter poison here too.)
Therefore, the solution isn't to try to convince people to ostracize New York 9/11 Truth. Rather, what's needed is for a lot of people to voice their concerns about the commissioners (and about the issue of discrediting associations in general) to New York 9/11 Truth as an organization.
In my opinion, those of us who live in or near New York should attend meetings of New York 9/11 Truth and voice our concerns directly (and politely, please). For others, I would suggest writing politely worded "open letters to New York 9/11 Truth" and posting them on 911blogger or on one's own blog.
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Diane
New York City Activist |
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JohnA
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 949
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: Diane |
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Diane - polite opposition to NY911TRuth has been tried - for the last 4 years - falling upon deaf and often bellicose ears.
Perhaps you need to consider the possibility that this is intentional.
To everyone else:
you already know my position on this.
unfortunately, all we ever do is talk ad infinitum about the problem - day after day - week after week - and in my case - year after year.
My own experience has been that the messenger usually gets clobbered – while the disruptors themselves continue to get the benefit of the doubt – and continued support.
There comes a time when silence is betrayal.
Even DEATH THREATS are now tolerated?
Even the most reputable and intellectual activists among us – those I considered my friends – have turned a deaf ear to the issue – accusing me of being shrill or fear mongering.
So why even try?
Posting on message boards is clearly not going to change a God-damned thing.
Creating blogs that carefully document the problem is extremely important – but are VERY limited in reaching a widespread audience – and will not prevent the problem.
Individual crusades to battle those responsible – such as I launched against certain parties – does not work. It in fact feeds the beast.
So what is the answer?
Bill Douglas had a good idea. He actually DARED to ask WHY 911 activists were being threatened and harassed. He got NO support. It is my personal opinion that unless a UNIFIED statement on the problem is carried by ALL of the 9/11 Truth leadership – bombarding civil libertarians and anti-war activists and liberal news outlets and anyone and everyone who will listen – over and over and over again – relentlessly – demanding accountability and attention be paid – we are all wasting our time talking about it and lamenting our ineffectualness.
There are many cross-over news outlets that carry stories of interest regarding civil liberties and domestic spying and organized harassment campaigns against the anti-war movement. These are the people you need to reach out to.
There is a very prominent member of the ACLU who attended the 911 Boston Tea Party recently. She SPECIALIZES in domestic spying, tracking and harassment campaigns. She DOCUMENTS it.
Call her. Make the case.
All this endless lip service and debating with 911Blogger posters is WORTHLESS. Take REAL action. |
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Diane
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 592
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| victronix01 wrote: | | To me one of the real questions is why "leaders" often don't get it about disinfo and discrediting associations. |
One reason may be a misapplication of lessons learned in other political movements.
For example, around 1970, the leading feminist organization, NOW, tried to purge open lesbians from its ranks, on the grounds that open lesbians were an embarrassment to feminism. Others argued that capitulating to homophobia was, itself, a betrayal of feminism. The latter viewpoint eventually won - fortunately, in my opinion.
Similarly, within the gay rights movements, there have been attempts to exclude groups that were perceived by some as an embarrassing fringe, including transgender people, bisexuals, and BDSMers. Such exclusions only rarely remained acceptable in the long run, because bigotry against these fringe groups is essentially similar to bigotry against gays, so, capitulating to it is obviously hypocritical. The only exclusion I'm aware of that the GLBT rights movement has effectively retained in full force, in the long run, is an exclusion of pedophile groups such as NAMBLA.
I think it's important to be clear, when bringing up the issue of discrediting associations, that one is not endorsing bigotry of any kind, or any capitulations to same. Therefore, I think we should be careful to define and limit the kinds of "discrediting associations" we are concerned about. Defining "discrediting associations" as "anything that could possibly be used against us" is too broad, since that could include all manner of capitulations to bigotry. I think the kinds of "discrediting associations" we are concerned about should be strictly limited to things like (1) political ideology, especially one's views on 9/11 itself, and (2) concerns about a person's ethics.
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Diane
New York City Activist |
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Diane
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 592
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Diane |
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| JohnA wrote: | | Diane - polite opposition to NY911TRuth has been tried - for the last 4 years - falling upon deaf and often bellicose ears. |
I would like to hear from you more details of the history of this. I will email you my phone number.
| JohnA wrote: | | My own experience has been that the messenger usually gets clobbered – while the disruptors themselves continue to get the benefit of the doubt – and continued support. |
I have not gotten "clobbered" yet (at least not in the context of the 9/11 Truth movement, unless you count agent-baiting by dogmatists on message boards as "clobbering," though I've been harassed in other contexts). But I would like to learn more of the past history.
| JohnA wrote: | | Even DEATH THREATS are now tolerated? |
Of course we shouldn't tolerate death threats. But that's a different issue from the question of how we should respond to the ballot initiative.
| JohnA wrote: | | Even the most reputable and intellectual activists among us – those I considered my friends – have turned a deaf ear to the issue – accusing me of being shrill or fear mongering. |
To which issue? The harassment issue, or the discrediting associations issue?
| JohnA wrote: | Creating blogs that carefully document the problem is extremely important – but are VERY limited in reaching a widespread audience – and will not prevent the problem.
Individual crusades to battle those responsible – such as I launched against certain parties – does not work. It in fact feeds the beast. |
Agreed, that's not a good idea. I'm glad you've come to recognize this.
| JohnA wrote: | So what is the answer?
Bill Douglas had a good idea. He actually DARED to ask WHY 911 activists were being threatened and harassed. He got NO support. It is my personal opinion that unless a UNIFIED statement on the problem is carried by ALL of the 9/11 Truth leadership – bombarding civil libertarians and anti-war activists and liberal news outlets and anyone and everyone who will listen – over and over and over again – relentlessly – demanding accountability and attention be paid – we are all wasting our time talking about it and lamenting our ineffectualness.
There are many cross-over news outlets that carry stories of interest regarding civil liberties and domestic spying and organized harassment campaigns against the anti-war movement. These are the people you need to reach out to.
There is a very prominent member of the ACLU who attended the 911 Boston Tea Party recently. She SPECIALIZES in domestic spying, tracking and harassment campaigns. She DOCUMENTS it.
Call her. Make the case. |
Sounds like a good idea. How do we contact her and other relevant people? Also it would be helpful if you could refer us to some documentation of the problem.
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Diane
New York City Activist |
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Arabesque
Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 1437
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Diane |
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| JohnA wrote: | Diane - polite opposition to NY911TRuth has been tried - for the last 4 years - falling upon deaf and often bellicose ears.
Perhaps you need to consider the possibility that this is intentional.
To everyone else:
you already know my position on this.
unfortunately, all we ever do is talk ad infinitum about the problem - day after day - week after week - and in my case - year after year.
My own experience has been that the messenger usually gets clobbered – while the disruptors themselves continue to get the benefit of the doubt – and continued support.
There comes a time when silence is betrayal.
Even DEATH THREATS are now tolerated?
Even the most reputable and intellectual activists among us – those I considered my friends – have turned a deaf ear to the issue – accusing me of being shrill or fear mongering.
So why even try?
Posting on message boards is clearly not going to change a God-damned thing.
Creating blogs that carefully document the problem is extremely important – but are VERY limited in reaching a widespread audience – and will not prevent the problem.
Individual crusades to battle those responsible – such as I launched against certain parties – does not work. It in fact feeds the beast.
So what is the answer?
Bill Douglas had a good idea. He actually DARED to ask WHY 911 activists were being threatened and harassed. He got NO support. It is my personal opinion that unless a UNIFIED statement on the problem is carried by ALL of the 9/11 Truth leadership – bombarding civil libertarians and anti-war activists and liberal news outlets and anyone and everyone who will listen – over and over and over again – relentlessly – demanding accountability and attention be paid – we are all wasting our time talking about it and lamenting our ineffectualness.
There are many cross-over news outlets that carry stories of interest regarding civil liberties and domestic spying and organized harassment campaigns against the anti-war movement. These are the people you need to reach out to.
There is a very prominent member of the ACLU who attended the 911 Boston Tea Party recently. She SPECIALIZES in domestic spying, tracking and harassment campaigns. She DOCUMENTS it.
Call her. Make the case.
All this endless lip service and debating with 911Blogger posters is WORTHLESS. Take REAL action. |
This is a serious political issue with the movement. The more people who demand accountability in the 9/11 truth movement, the better the chances of getting it. Activism means making the movement successful.
We have to document the problem of harassment before people will take it seriously. If it's one person and a few incidents, people will blow it off. To realize the depth of the problem, you have to see how widespread it is. You have to see the pattern of who and how many are being targeted. The only way to do that is to COMPLETELY document the problem and then--education. Information can be spread effectively anywhere on the Internet. One or two people can make a huge difference.
The one thing that any oppressor fears is the free availability of information. Silence, secrecy, and censorship are the weapons of tyranny.
_________________
Arabesque: 911 Truth
2008 Declaration: Standards and Strategies for 9/11 Truth
A 9/11/2008 Resolution: Start Your Own 9/11 Blog |
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Diane
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 592
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: Diane |
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| Arabesque wrote: | This is a serious political issue with the movement. The more people who demand accountability in the 9/11 truth movement, the better the chances of getting it. Activism means making the movement successful.
We have to document the problem of harassment before people will take it seriously. If it's one person and a few incidents, people will blow it off. To realize the depth of the problem, you have to see how widespread it is. You have to see the pattern of who and how many are being targeted. The only way to do that is to COMPLETELY document the problem and then--education. Information can be spread effectively anywhere on the Internet. One or two people can make a huge difference. |
Agreed that the problem of harassment needs to be documented, and that we need to get leaders to take a stand against it.
But, here in this thread, could we please get back to the topic of the ballot initiative, for which time is of the essence? As I said, NOW is the time to have input on the ballot initiative, because it's in process of being re-written now. Once the new petition has been printed up, it will be too late.
What are your thoughts on how to address your concerns about the ballot initiative, given the absence of any competent organizers in NYC other than the leaders of New York 9/11 Truth and We Are Change?
On that issue, I see no viable alternative to voicing one's concerns, politely though urgently, to the leaders of New York 9/11 Truth and to the movement at large.
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Diane
New York City Activist |
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Diane
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 592
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Arabesque wrote: | Again... if some disinfo is so "obvious" why can't we get rid of the people who facilitate and apologize for it at every turn?
Why is that so hard? |
Because, here in NYC, there just aren't any other organizers who are anywhere even remotely as competent, or as persistent and dedicated, as the leaders of New York 9/11 Truth and We Are Change. If there were a reasonably well-organized group that had higher standards, I would be happy to join it. But there isn't one. So, at least for now, there's no better alternative than to try to persuade the folks at New York 9/11 Truth to raise their standards.
Trying to "get rid of" Les Jamieson accomplishes nothing, unless there's a better alternative. There isn't one.
| Arabesque wrote: | | Success is so much easier without the junk attached to everything. |
Of course success would be easier with higher standards. But I see no good alternative to working as well as we can with the already-existing leadership. We do need something like the NYC ballot initiative, and that requires organizational competence, which no one else in NYC seems to have.
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Diane
New York City Activist
Last edited by Diane on Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:24 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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funhouse1970
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 339
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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The more I think about it I believe this effort has been compromised.
Google "Dr. Edgar Mitchell UFO"
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc533.htm
Also, I hate to say it because it shouldn't make a difference, but the inclusion of Splitting the Sky will also provide grist for the detractors of this proposed new "investigation". |
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Diane
Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 592
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| victronix01 wrote: | The first "commissioner" on the list . . .
"Yes, there have been ET visitations. "
Apollo 14 Astronaut, Edgar Mitchell, Ph.D. (Sixth Man to Walk on Moon)
From Disclosure, pp. 61-64.
See also The Way of the Explorer, Edgar Mitchell and Dwight Williams, p. 212.
http://www.wanttoknow.info/050324ufotestimony
reading on . .
"There have been crashed craft. There have been material and bodies recovered . . . "
That's all folks! Show's over for any "investigation" done by this commission. Mixing UFO and 9/11 is only to tank 9/11, even if UFOs are 100% real and visiting every hour of the day. The fact is, it's a hotbutton switch to turn off Americans. |
Actually, it wouldn't turn off most Americans, most of whom do believe that UFO's are alien spacecraft. But it would turn off most scientists and most other intellectuals, and that is indeed something to be concerned about.
_________________
Diane
New York City Activist
Last edited by Diane on Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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