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snowflake

Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 450 Location: SF Bay Area
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YT
Joined: 18 Jan 2007 Posts: 4601 Location: California
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Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Oh... wow |
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Scott N

Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 1525
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Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Who made these "guidestones" anyway? |
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JohnA

Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Posts: 949
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Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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that's the big mystery about the guidestones.
some people have interpreted the message to be an advocacy of genocide - since it dictates that world population should be maintained at 500 million. Some have attempted to connect them to Jimmy Carter since they were erected during his presidency in his home state - and see his connection to Zbigniew Brzezinski and the 'trilateral commission' as somehow relevant.
it appears these theories have gained enough traction in the general population to have caused someone to act out and deface them. |
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Col. Jenny Sparks

Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 2329
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Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnA wrote: | | that's the big mystery about the guidestones. |
I know its serious, but I can't get "I said 18 feet!" out of my head:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXGbwIkvh38
But seriously:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
| Quote: |
some people have interpreted the message to be an advocacy of genocide - since it dictates that world population should be maintained at 500 million. Some have attempted to connect them to Jimmy Carter since they were erected during his presidency in his home state - and see his connection to Zbigniew Brzezinski and the 'trilateral commission' as somehow relevant.
it appears these theories have gained enough traction in the general population to have caused someone to act out and deface them. |
Well, here's the English message:
| Quote: | MAINTAIN HUMANITY UNDER 500,000,000
IN PERPETUAL BALANCE WITH NATURE
GUIDE REPRODUCTION WISELY —
IMPROVING FITNESS AND DIVERSITY
UNITE HUMANITY WITH A LIVING
NEW LANGUAGE
RULE PASSION — FAITH — TRADITION
AND ALL THINGS
WITH TEMPERED REASON
PROTECT PEOPLE AND NATIONS
WITH FAIR LAWS AND JUST COURTS
LET ALL NATIONS RULE INTERNALLY
RESOLVING EXTERNAL DISPUTES
IN A WORLD COURT
AVOID PETTY LAWS AND USELESS
OFFICIALS
BALANCE PERSONAL RIGHTS WITH
SOCIAL DUTIES.
PRIZE TRUTH — BEAUTY — LOVE —
SEEKING HARMONY WITH THE
INFINITE
BE NOT A CANCER ON THE EARTH —
LEAVE ROOM FOR NATURE —
LEAVE ROOM FOR NATURE |
Not really seeing a problem--unless someone believes there's a secret coded message in one of the other languages...
 _________________ ___________________________________________________
http://coljennysparks.blogspot.com/ |
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Nicholas
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 373
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Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Hm, never heard of these before. What a bizarre obsession for the right-wingers. I mean, some slabs in a field... I'd worry more about paragraphs in a law book. Or billboards in urban centers. It's amazing what might constitute a red flag for a raging bull, even at remote distances.
Some who advocate population control, advocate genocide. It does not follow in any way that population control must entail genocide, however. That is a faulty syllogism (and a favored canard of the "NWO" right).
However, 500 million is not a realistic goal without a horrific die-off of some kind, unless the author is thinking in terms of 1000-year windows. Even with a population control based solely on voluntary birth rate controls (thanks to enlightenment of the whole human species), I have a problem with reduction, to wit: Children are good. Energy and creativity come disproportionately from the young. Older people who never encounter children turn into soulless zombies (even if they don't necessarily turn into evil monsters). Children deserve a wealth of other children. So to maintain a decent population share for the youth of the species I'm for stabilization, not reduction. We can figure out how to feed everyone and live well on this planet at the present population (probably not very much higher, however).
Otherwise, taken generally, these are a reasonable and obvious set of propositions for a better life on earth. One has to be very hard bit with right-wing poison to think any of these statements, taken as general propositions, are necessarily evidence of a nefarious "NWO" plan.
Then again, we don't know what the anonymous creator of these stones meant. Maybe s/he really wanted a code for Alex Jones's nightmares. If so, however, it's too vague and too late: one thing post-modern philosophy does get right is that the text once published belongs to its readers.
Here's a positive site on the guidestones:
http://www.thegeorgiaguidestones.com/stones.htm
And it quotes clarifications for each of the 10 statements as supposedly authored by RC Christian, which (if genuine) again support strongly the idea that they are meant as general propositions, not secret guidelines for the CFR:
| Quote: |
* Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature -
Means the entire human race at its climax level for permanent balance with nature.
* Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.
Without going into details as yet undiscovered, this means humanity should apply reason and knowledge to guiding its own reproduction. "Fitness" could be translated as "health." "Diversity" could be translated as "variety".
* Unite humanity with a living new language.
A "living" language grows and changes with advancing knowledge. A "new" language will be developed "de novo" - and need not necessarily be adopted from any languages now in existence.
* Rule Passion - Faith - Tradition - and all things with tempered reason.
"Faith" here may be used in a religious sense. Too often people are ruled by blind faith even when it may be contrary to reason. Reason must be tempered with compassion here - but must prevail.
* Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
Courts must consider justice as well as law.
* Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
Individual nations must be free to develop their own destinies at home as their own people wish - but cannot abuse their neighbors.
* Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
Self explanatory.
* Balance personal rights with social duties.
Individuals have a natural concern for their personal welfare, but man is a social animal and must also be concerned for the group. Failure of society means failure for its individual citizens.
* Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.
The infinite here means the supreme being - whose will is manifest in the working of the cosmos - if we will seek for it.
* Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature.
In our time, the growth of humanity is destroying the natural conditions of the earth which have fostered all existing life. We must restore reasoned balance. |
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funhouse1970
Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 339
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
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MAINTAIN HUMANITY UNDER 500,000,000
IN PERPETUAL BALANCE WITH NATURE
No one here sees a problem with that?
I'm glad they were defaced (though I wish the graffiti was less moronic) - the genocidal eugenic mission of the technocratic elite and the coming world religion of anti-human nature worship concepts should be discussed.
Thanks to Alan Watt for fully exposing the not-so-hidden agenda.
http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/AlanWattPodCast.xml
Last edited by funhouse1970 on Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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chek NI

Joined: 08 May 2008 Posts: 196
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:33 am Post subject: |
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I fully agree funhouse.
I'd like to see the "Guidestones" turned into the "Georgia 20 Mile Drywall" and see who complains. |
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Col. Jenny Sparks

Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 2329
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| funhouse1970 wrote: | MAINTAIN HUMANITY UNDER 500,000,000
IN PERPETUAL BALANCE WITH NATURE
No one here sees a problem with that?
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No, not really. See, this is not legislation. These are someone's idea of guidelines--as in, "this is a really good idea to take to heart if we want the human race NOT to be extinct, and can be achieved in a handful or so of generations by a combination of contraceptives, education and economic reforms".
But by all means, if you want to take the most hysterical interpretation and run with it, enjoy yourself.
I always find it interesting people who object to population control leap to the assumption there is going to be a fascist genocidal agenda lurking about. Really says more about these people's headspace, than the intent of guidelines like this.
And fails to be born out in reality. In places where there are actual genocides--African dictatorships, China, Tibet--observe the complete lack of concern for anything like "living in balance with nature". They're just cold blooded fascists about everything.
Ethnic cleansing control freaks kill en mass, not people looking for sane population stability.
The fact of the matter is humans need to change there habits as a race or we will be extinct--or be in a situation most of us wish we were extinct. Anyone who thinks we can just keep reproducing unchecked without consequences is deluding themselves.
Don't like this wording? Fine. It was just a guideline. An idea. So stop whinging and come up with an idea that will accomplish the same thing.
I suspect, when you get done, whatever you call it it will be functionally the same as
"this is a really good idea to take to heart if we want the human race NOT to be extinct, and can be achieved in a handful or so of generations by a combination of contraceptives, education and economic reforms". _________________ ___________________________________________________
http://coljennysparks.blogspot.com/ |
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snowflake

Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 450 Location: SF Bay Area
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| funhouse1970 wrote: | MAINTAIN HUMANITY UNDER 500,000,000
IN PERPETUAL BALANCE WITH NATURE
No one here sees a problem with that?
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hell yes i do! jesus wants us to have as many babies as possible. anyone who advocates keeping our population in balance with nature must be a satanist. _________________
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chek NI

Joined: 08 May 2008 Posts: 196
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Col. Jenny Sparks wrote: | | funhouse1970 wrote: | MAINTAIN HUMANITY UNDER 500,000,000 IN PERPETUAL BALANCE WITH NATURE
No one here sees a problem with that?
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No, not really. See, this is not legislation. These are someone's idea of guidelines. |
I hear what you say CJ, but then again the same could have been said about Mein Kampf.
Why 500 million?
Doesn't that smack of a nice, round, financial services kinda number dreamed up over brandy and cigars, perhaps while the ladies in the drawing room discussed embroidery?
How do we know that such a figure doesn't condemn mankind to extinction, because just maybe there needs to be a population of at least 5 - or 10 - or 20 - or 50 billion to create a diverse enough gene pool to survive whatever the universe throws at us over the next X-million or even X-billion years? The short answer is we don't and we can't. Without getting religious about it, men are not gods.
Not that that ever stopped any of our resident megalomaniacs.
As ever, visions of the future are firmly rooted in present paranoias. |
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truthmover

Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 1550 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Check this! I think Snowflake was right about the AJ fan, and I also think we are seeing an incestuous relationship between fact and faith.
| Quote: | Dismantling The Georgia Guidestones
http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/occult_dismantling_georgia_guidestones.htm
The Georgia Guidestones have been part of the landscape in Elberton, Georgia for a quarter of a century. Tourists flood to Elberton each year to see the 19-foot-tall granite monument, often posing for pictures standing beside it.
After 25 years, a Christian organization named The Resistance is calling for the monument’s immediate removal.
"The satanic Georgia Guidestones must be destroyed," insists John Conner of The Resistance. "The Guidestones should be smashed into a million pieces, and then the rubble used for a construction purpose."
The notion of hacking the monument into smithereens for construction scrap has a certain appeal, given the hype of how it came to dominate the lonely landscape in the first place. ...
Then there is the camp that dismisses the stones as the creation of an eccentric environmentalist.
Many Christians have seen the Georgia Guidestones as the New World Order’s 10 Commandments, of the type already written up by United Nations Poster Boy Maurice Strong and former Soviet Union President Mikhail Gorbachev, the duo who authored the Earth Charter.
Others see the stones as an out-of-the-way monument of the occult. ...
Conner is the author of The Resistance Manifesto , a publication that exposes Satanic influences in America, including the meaning behind the pseudonym "R.C. Christian", the name of the man who paid to have the monument erected.
The Resistance is a worldwide subculture of Christians "fighting the invasion of privacy from the growing New World Order." |
So it seems that the person most vocally opposed to this monument for reasons founded in Christian fundamentalism, is also someone who has a number of strong connections within the movement to those of a similar orientation.
So the NWO is a tool of the devil? How many "truthers" believe that?
The truth movement is not a religious quest. Fundamentalism and logic are not compatible. We may be motivated to seek and promote the truth for spiritual reasons, but that has little to do with prioritizing and promoting facts. _________________ http://911truthburnout.blogspot.com
Last edited by truthmover on Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:24 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Nicholas
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 373
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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This John Connor character - is that the name his parents gave him?
(I'll reserve further comments until I find that out, I hope by the easy way of someone telling me here.)
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truthmover

Joined: 19 Oct 2007 Posts: 1550 Location: Los Angeles
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Nicholas
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 373
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, that asshole. Okay, nuff said.
I was going to point out that anyone who names themselves after a Messiah character in a Hollywood movie series has little standing as a Christian. But since this is Mark Dice we're talking about, it's a superfluous point.
Also, we can debate it, but the spirit behind graffiti like "Obama is a Muslim" has probably motivated a lot more genocidal crime than that behind rational population control. (It is true that the Nazis had roots both in "scientific eugenics" and in nationalist hate ideology, so sadly they're not mutually exclusive.) The goal of 500 million people on earth is whacked, as I argue above, even assuming it's to be achieved entirely through voluntary birth rate control over a 1,000-year period.
However, until we can actually travel to and terraform other planets, there's no doubt the risks of lower gene pool diversity are more than a tad below those of exhausting the resource base required for feeding ourselves, at least through this particular civilization's modes of industry. So no, other than Christianist and other religionist propaganda, I don't see a reason to be against rational population control.
The only successful long-term method of population control in the historical record has involved the reduction of death rates, the emancipation (in every sense) of women, and the retreat of religious endarkenment of the kind advocated by Alex Jones and Mark Dice. Chew on that.
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